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<!-- received="Thu Aug 12 12:54:51 1999 PDT" -->
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<!-- sent="Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:11:21 +0200" -->
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<!-- name="Andreas Beck" -->
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<!-- email="becka@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de" -->
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<!-- subject="[252353N@knotes.kodak.com: Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and" -->
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<!-- inreplyto="Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and" -->
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<title>sane-devel: [252353N@knotes.kodak.com: Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and</title>
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<h1>[252353N@knotes.kodak.com: Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and</h1>
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<b>Andreas Beck</b> (<a href="mailto:becka@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de"><i>becka@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de</i></a>)<br>
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<i>Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:11:21 +0200</i>
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<p>
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<ul>
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<li> <b>Next message:</b> <a href="0110.html">Andreas Beck: "Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and TWAIN..."</a>
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<li> <b>Previous message:</b> <a href="0108.html">Pamela Akazawa: "Re: modprobe"</a>
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Mark asked me to forward his reply:<br>
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<p>
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----- Forwarded message from 252353N@knotes.kodak.com -----<br>
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<p>
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Return-Path: <<a href="mailto:252353N@knotes.kodak.com">252353N@knotes.kodak.com</a>><br>
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From: <a href="mailto:252353N@knotes.kodak.com">252353N@knotes.kodak.com</a><br>
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To: Andreas Beck <<a href="mailto:becka@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de">becka@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de</a>><br>
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Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:852567CA.007047E6.00@knotes.kodak.com">852567CA.007047E6.00@knotes.kodak.com</a>><br>
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:34:57 -0400<br>
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Subject: Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and TWAIN...<br>
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<p>
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From: Mark McLaughlin<br>
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<p>
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Hi Andy...<br>
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<p>
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Many thanks for your reply...<br>
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<p>
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I agree with your first comment. Linux, especially, is attracting<br>
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all kinds of attention, and while I think it is essential to support<br>
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UNIX and not just Linux, I suspect that the best short term goal<br>
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is getting TWAIN on Linux.<br>
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<p>
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Your comment about abstaction layers is of keen interest to<br>
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me. I'm not just interested in seeing TWAIN on UNIX. I think<br>
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there is an opportunity with SANE to create a driver development<br>
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'kit' that abstracts away the physical communication with the OS,<br>
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rather like ASPI does, though I'd like to see something less wire<br>
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dependent.<br>
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<p>
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Perhaps such an abstraction already exists, if not it needs to,<br>
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since it would significantly reduce the effort of porting drivers from<br>
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one OS to another, which is the main reason you see so many<br>
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devices well supported on one platform and weakly supported<br>
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or unsupported on others.<br>
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<p>
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In this case it would then be highly desireable to see SANE<br>
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on Macintosh and Windows platforms, since it would reduce<br>
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the driver development effort.<br>
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<p>
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As for your comparison of SANE and TWAIN, here are some of<br>
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my observations...<br>
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<p>
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- SANE is GUI-less to provide optimal support across networks<br>
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and on systems were there is no Windowing system.<br>
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<p>
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- TWAIN assumes the presence of a Windowing system (which<br>
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is pretty reasonable for Windows and Macintosh, and for a<br>
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lot of UNIX systems). The reason for the GUI is that it takes<br>
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away the burden of capability negotiation from the application<br>
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writer. This means that an app writer can communicate with a<br>
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Source with a minimum number of calls, without losing access<br>
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to all the features of the device represented by the Source.<br>
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<p>
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- I'm going to say that last bit again in a different way, since it is<br>
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an important part of the TWAIN philosophy. When we are<br>
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working on the TWAIN specification, we often ask the question<br>
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"does this make things easier for the Source writer or for the<br>
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application writer?" Whenever possible we try to make things<br>
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easier for the application writer, since there are many apps for<br>
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every Source.<br>
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<p>
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- And having said that, let me say that TWAIN has been and is<br>
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continuing to emphasize the programmatic side of the interface.<br>
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This is because some application writers really hate those<br>
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internal TWAIN GUIs, and want to assume full control of the<br>
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Source. It's an ongoing process to convince Source writers to<br>
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take the time to fill out both interfaces.<br>
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<p>
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As I've stated in my other mail messages today, I believe the<br>
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immediate win from seeing SANE and TWAIN on UNIX, Windows<br>
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and Macintosh platforms is that it removes an impediment from<br>
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application writers who want to try their hand on another platform<br>
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without massive code rewrites.<br>
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<p>
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In the case of TWAIN that means that a Windowing system must<br>
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be present. And on UNIX that really points the finger at X-Windows.<br>
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Of course, the cool thing about X is that it can display windows<br>
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across the net, so the fact that TWAIN requires a GUI does not<br>
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preclude the use of remote capture devices.<br>
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<p>
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For the time being I recommend that we not worry about running<br>
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TWAIN on console mode systems. TK/TCL could be used to<br>
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accomodate this, but if my initial assumption is true, that the first<br>
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targeted developer audience is application ports, then there<br>
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won't be anyone interested in running TWAIN on a system that<br>
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isn't also running X. There is nothing preventing us from looking<br>
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into this later, if a real need is identified (I realize that some remote<br>
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scanning solutions might be 'very' interested in this).<br>
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<p>
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As for the look of the different TWAIN GUIs...<br>
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Well...<br>
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Heh...<br>
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We've had chats in the Working Group about this, and are aware<br>
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that the plethoria of interfaces isn't ideal at all points. It is ideal in<br>
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that it allows a hardware vendor to present their device the way<br>
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they want (which presumably accesses all the features of the<br>
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device). Those applications that want to write their own GUI<br>
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interfaces do so to let them integrate the control of the image capture<br>
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device into their own 'look and feel' and to eleminate operator<br>
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retraining.<br>
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<p>
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We've discussed the notion of a single, standard interface that<br>
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applications could invoke as an alternative to the Source's GUI<br>
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and to writing a complete programmatic interface. This path<br>
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looks nastier the longer one looks at it so we've shelved it for<br>
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now, but if the SANE group has ideas on this, we're more than<br>
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happy to dust off the issues and chat about them again...<br>
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<p>
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I realize that I may not have addressed all the items in your<br>
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message to me, but I also just noticed that I have to leave, so<br>
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I'm sending this out now. Please let me know if I missed anything<br>
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that you want to discuss more...<br>
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<p>
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<p>
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Mark McLaughlin<br>
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Eastman Kodak Company<br>
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716 726 1352<br>
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<a href="mailto:mlm@kodak.com">mlm@kodak.com</a><br>
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<p>
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----- End forwarded message -----<br>
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<p>
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I cut out the original mail from me, that is referenced above, as you should<br>
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already have it.<br>
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<p>
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Cu, ANdy<br>
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<p>
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<pre>
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--
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= Andreas Beck | Email : <<a href="mailto:andreas.beck@ggi-project.org">andreas.beck@ggi-project.org</a>> =
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<p>
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<pre>
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--
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Source code, list archive, and docs: <a href="http://www.mostang.com/sane/">http://www.mostang.com/sane/</a>
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</pre>
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<ul>
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<!-- next="start" -->
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<li> <b>Next message:</b> <a href="0110.html">Andreas Beck: "Re: Starting a discussion about SANE and TWAIN..."</a>
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||
<li> <b>Previous message:</b> <a href="0108.html">Pamela Akazawa: "Re: modprobe"</a>
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